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Message to anyone who care about the alliance

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Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by undisclosed on Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:34 pm

Hello everyone

I am going to write about somthing which seems to be some kinda of "tabu" for the alliance, im probbaly not the only one who think this is a big problem.
I will make it simple and clear im not here to offend anyone nor am i here to make anyone feel bad, i simple think its time to take a good look at the alliance for everyones sake.

We have a big problem with accepting almost any guild into the alliance and it seems like it is ruining the alliance. We have A LOT of unactive guilds which do not really offer any help what so ever to the alliance in Pvp (perc def. or koths) and its a shame. One can argue that the lower lvl guilds which basicly are only in the alliance for the sake of perc protection is, helping in some kinda way by coming to koths, but that isnt the case i have seen alot of koths where its mainly the same people and guilds which is coming and helping. 

So what i wish is that we take this topic and have a talk/debate about how we can make guilds more active in the Pvp stage. We could maybe place som kinda of punishment upon a guild which doesnt offer any help what so ever. or give a warning. 
I dont really care what is to be done but somthing has to be done , i mean it cant be that a alliance with 3,5k memebers cant even make 2 x5 chars percs hunt possible. its outrageous. Some of you would probably think " why does he point fingers at people" well the thing is im tired of deffending percs and losing percs deffends for the sake of useless guilds which doesnt do anything what so ever back again. 
There is simple put no respect for the work some of the higher lvl guilds does. 
I think its outrageous that me and other memebers of WCIP have to be the soul deffending team for a lot of perc attacks, and when our perc is attacked bearly anyone joins. and i dont understand the logic that some people have that its simple alright to deny having time for perc hunt, but goes out and do a dung. 
( One must understand that we do most perc attacks to stop the on going perc attacks on our percs. the best deffends is somtimes attacks)
Dont missunderstand me i dont want to force people to help, but its damn time more people start helping we cant be only this few whom have the responsabiltty of the whole alliances perc defs. and koths. its insane .

I like a solution to this problem which we face and people can play blind and think we dont have a problem but we do, and aeon doesnt look very good right now due to it. 

I like to point out that this is my point of view and i think its a shame if anyone starts blameing my guild for what i do.


Written by Undisclosed-Desires aka former Dangerous-Effect. 


Last edited by undisclosed on Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by undisclosed on Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:37 pm

Sorry for the misspelling i was in a bit of a rush.

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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by zapper on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:32 am

Well said. Agree 100%.
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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by Pirate-Bay on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:53 am

(I've deleted the off-topic post and replies to it.)

I agree that perc defense is important for our alliance, and we should find ways to improve participation. However first I'd like to talk about my thought of the importance of perc defense.

Perc defenders tend to be less prepared than attackers, so defense is usually challenging, expecially against several well-funded characters. That does not mean we should give up on defending though. There are only few extremely well-geared characters who are available to attack percs at any time, so defending and trying our best will limit their ability to attack multiple percs, and it may buy us time until our stronger defenders are available.

Some people are only willing to defend their own guilds' percs or those of the guilds they like. I discourage that. Even if you don't care for a guild, making attackers spend more time on its perc reduces the chance of them getting to a perc you do care about. In a way, defending any perc is also defending your own perc.

When we lose a perc defense, there will be a drop of morale. However, it doesn't need to be the end of the world. If I lose my own perc which held very valuable items, I would feel bad. If I were able to collect the item, I could have had a lot of fun with it. But I can still have fun without it. We play the game for fun, don't we? Winning should only be a means, not the end.

Therefore I hope we can remain calm and positive after defeat, and that includes a defeat caused by low participation. One of the reasons for low participation may be previous defeats, and venting your frustration will likely make it worse.


Speaking of which, I can think of a few reasons why people don't join perc defenses, and ways we could address them. Of course, feel free to make suggestions and let me know if you disagree.

  • They may think they're too weak in PvP to help.

    For this, I think it may be time to drop the rule that only level 199-200s should join perc defenses, or at least lower the required levels. The rule is there because sometimes high levels get blocked by low levels, but when we have many undefended perc fights, this rule probably doesn't make sense.

  • They may dislike the atmosphere in PvP fights.

    There's little we can do to directly control attackers' behavior, but we can make sure our own behavior doesn't discourage alliance members from participating again. In the heat of the game it's easy to blame teammates for a mistake, and I admit to having committed this error too. But let's be calm and supportive. That's the best way to recover from errors, or at least to prevent more damaging consequences such as decreased participation.

  • They may be occupied with other things.

    As said before, if strong PvPers in the alliance are not available, others can still contribute, even if only to slow down the attackers. It might help to point that out when asking people to join or prepare for attacks.

    Many PvPers "grow" from PvMers, and PvPers are more likely to join each other and succeed when they are friendly with each other. So it's important to give people time to do dungeons, Kolossium, etc too.

  • They may not be loyal to Aeon.

    We could make it a rule that alts of players who repeatedly attack our percs and prisms are banned from Aeon guilds. I welcome any help with pinpointing these people.

    Some people have proposed that we don't defend a guild's percs if the guild doesn't help. I think that would be counterproductive, because anyone who tries to defend may see themselves fighting alone even though others are available, and as a result they will be discouraged from defending again. I also already mentioned that defending any perc slows down attackers.

    Some people proposed kicking guilds that do not help with perc/prism defense. I would only do this in the extreme cases. There is always a possibility that someone from a guild will help the alliance, even if the leaders don't.


Finally, I would like to remind everyone a couple things:

Most people who read the forum posts do care about the alliance, so while we may be frustrated at the low participation, let's remain as polite as possible and not vent frustration toward forum readers.

Guilds can be very different from one another, and there are different ways to contribute to the alliance. For example, Diamonds in the Rough leaders contributed prisms when the alliance was first formed, and when we needed them not too long ago. Gondawa leader did most of the work redesigning our forum, among their other contributions. Many alliance members offer their professions to us. Perc defense is important, but I would not measure a guild's contributions purely based on it. Note that the most successful alliances on our server are not mainly PvP-driven.

While defending percs benefits everyone in the alliance, asking people to defend is still asking for their help. Friends are more likely to help than strangers. So to improve participation in the alliance, we need to improve relationship between alliance members, not just within guilds, but between them.
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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by Easty on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:47 am

I usually playing for about 3h in evening, trying to run some dung or so, if am not in a fight, i go defend. KOTH is different story, ive been on 3 out of 4 KOTHs i know since im in AEON, 4th KOTH i just were offline  Sad Im not PVP at all, im purely PVM   Cool But i found in this short time, that alliance is friendly and helpfull!!!

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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by zapper on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:31 pm

Pirate-Bay wrote:They may not be loyal to Aeon.


  • We could make it a rule that alts of players who repeatedly attack our percs and prisms are banned from Aeon guilds. I welcome any help with pinpointing these people.



In WCIP we take this point very seriously. Players with mains or alts in WCIP which have repeatedly attacked Aeon percs from accounts in other alliances are at risk of being kicked from guild. A recent repeated offender was kicked. Myself and other WCIP members had to defend Aeon percs against our own guildy while that person was using WCIP percs also for his own benefit.
Accounts shared accross different owners will get warned first.

I do encourage other guilds to do the same.

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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by sterredag on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:45 pm

I completely agree with Pirate-Bay. Let me put in my 2 cents Smile

First of all I do find it frustating if a nice perc gets defeated. However I do also believe its just a game and there is a whole lot more to it then just the percs.

I must admit i try to join perc defences, But I'm not on very often. Although I'm a lvl 199 I believe i'm not strong enough to defend an attack of certain percattack groups. Sometimes I join. Even just for the fun killing only ONE of the attackers. Sometimes I'm in fight or dung and I just cant. Sometimes I'm just afk.

You cant always see the participation of a guild, because that guild can have members in a completely other timeline then you are.

And last bot not least. I believe the more we try, the more we learn to fight with eachother, we learn to communicate better. We learn eachothers stratagies and how others play and other players qualities (not every masq is the same masq e.g.)

I do dislike behaviour of some people in perc defences. THAT is sometimes a reason not to join. Just not feeling up to it to get ambushed and/or being called names, like stupid and stuff, just because you have a diffrent playing style. I believe THAT is something that needs to change. But I do also believe the only way to change it, is to play more together.

I agree with lowering the participation lvl for perc defenses, people can see if others are joining and if the group does not get filled up with the nescessary lvl 199-200, I believe lower lvls should be allowed to join, just for the reason to slow them down. And if you learn to play together before you reach lvl 199-200 you are a better group player at the moment you are qualified for a good perc defense.

Our guild participated in MANY Koths, we are always here to advise on people in /a chat or to help people out with stuff like the wabbit quests.

From my point of view, every guild leader knows about this forum and I think its best to communicate this to guildmembers or just link them this topic to read.

I almost never vote for or against joining a guild, because most are accepted anyway. Only when there is a strong reason to vote yes or no I'll post it in the application. I really dont care how much guilds we have. I just like playing with eachother and make the most out of it.

And of course people who have alts to attack our percs should be kicked. I must admit I have an alt in another alliance to. But I would never deside to use it to attack percs of aeon. On the other hand, I would also not use it to know the percs locations of the other alliance or use information from on alliance to another. I simply dont look at that information. I'm an Aeon member, but i'm not a spy.

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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

Post by Mykan on Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:27 pm

I don't disagree with the frustration of leech guilds I just can't see any easy solution off identifying them accurately. While no body likes the idea of a leech guild the sad reality is they do exist and not just in Aeon. 

The other sad reality is it is impossible to identify them. Ankama has provided no tools to help with identifying things like koth participation and you can't be online 24/7 to see who participates assuming an attack in their timezone. I tend to play at one of the quietest times of the day and have seen participation from a variety of small guilds on the rare occasions of attack.

The other issue with participation is even if such tools existed how do you measure the non-pvp help which a lot of aeon members prefer.

Another thing to consider is guilds not in our alliance end up against our alliance. Not saying that is a reason to accept many guilds but it is something to ponder.

 I think some good points have been raised above. Defense rule could perhaps have a level change but more important I think a tweak to allow people to feel comfortable to join below those levels when a low defense is available. I have seen levels 190+ not join the last 2/3 spots in a defense due to rule even though no other defenders were available.

I think there is still some education needed with members. Many PvM focused people don't wish to participate with koths but it is a place they can actually help regardless of level:

  • They can add to the numbers in the area and sometimes numerical dominance scares off attackers
  • Act as a scout even if eliminated, although alts of multi players do this well
  • Healer/undertakers are always handy
  • Should they get attacked they can drag out their death as long as possible to delay the eneemy and waste their time available in a koth. If they last 3 turns even outnumbered it can be a 2 min fight at least.


We under utilise and underestimate lower levels in attacks (as do other alliances) which makes them unwilling to help. There are some interesting strategies we can employ during perc hunts, defenses and even koths. Perhaps encouraging some of these ideas might help with participation.

Most people will always go the extra mile for a friend and perhaps our greatest challenge is not weeding out the leech guilds but looking for ways to build relationships. Many of you will know from your own guilds that strong relationships build strong participation. This is not an easy challenge but I believe focusing on it would not only provide a more positive outlook then focusing on the frustration, if successful we would have an incredible powerful alliance regardless of size.

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Re: Message to anyone who care about the alliance

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